Lost Estonian ancestors - tips anyone?

[bengt]

Hi,

I'm trying to identify and re-find some of my Estonian ancestry. My mother is Estonian, but when she managed to flee after the war (1946), she lost contact with her aunt (mother's sister). And I can't find any traces of her grandfather either...

I have checked in Geni (where I have collected over 500 relatives from my father's side), and visited the National Archives in Tallinn (on Maneezi st) as well as tried to browse ra.ee...

Unfortunately, all the information I have is that my grandmother's (Sofia Kütt, born 12 May 1912) sister's first name was Stefani, born in 1910. Her husband's name was Leo. They had three children, Alexandra, Nadja and one more, and they lived in Tartu. I also know that Stefani and my grandmother's parents were Donat (1879-1953) and Petronella Kozlowski.

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My second problem is that I can't find any traces of my great grandfather, Johan Kütt, born 24 March 1876 in Tartu. I have tried with ra.ee there too, but found no exact match...

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Any ideas?
Bengt
(Stockholm, Rootsi)

(P.S. I am trying to learn Estonian, but I am not good enough to use it, so I write in English...)

[passer urbanus]

Well - what more you know about Leo Kütt - that is, I am afraid, the only trace to follow in RA.

All other names sound not that much estonian and/or lutheran - the name is indexed in lutheran books only twice -
Koslowski in Pärnu german books: http://www.ra.ee/dgs/_purl.php?shc=EAA. ... 8,232,88,0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
and
Koslovski in Tartu - most likely gipsy (mother is Koslowski and father is gipsy Eduard Fenja): http://www.ra.ee/dgs/_purl.php?shc=EAA.3150.1.674:156" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


what else you know? were they orthodox? nobility?

Have you tried: http://www.isik.ee/english/index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[passer urbanus]

could it be, that Donat Koslovski was a shoemaker 1936
http://ais.ra.ee/index.php?module=202&o ... 75036c7dff" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[bengt]

Well - what more you know about Leo Kütt - that is, I am afraid, the only trace to follow in RA.

All other names sound not that much estonian and/or lutheran - the name is indexed in lutheran books only twice -
Koslowski in Pärnu german books: http://www.ra.ee/dgs/_purl.php?shc=EAA. ... 8,232,88,0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
and
Koslovski in Tartu - most likely gipsy (mother is Koslowski and father is gipsy Eduard Fenja): http://www.ra.ee/dgs/_purl.php?shc=EAA.3150.1.674:156" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


what else you know? were they orthodox? nobility?

Have you tried: http://www.isik.ee/english/index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Wow! You work fast! I wish I was that good!

I have some more and some less info.
They were all catholic (Petronella, Donat, Sofia, Stefani etc.). Leo's last name was most likely not Kütt. He was a Russian who married Stefani. He worked as a shoe maker.

I have indeed seen the link you suggest, but unfortunately I do not have an economy which allows me such extra costs which they offer. So I try to do some work myself, but since I have now come to a dead end I was hoping for a little "push" on the way. And you sure instill new hope!

[bengt]

could it be, that Donat Koslovski was a shoemaker 1936
http://ais.ra.ee/index.php?module=202&o ... 75036c7dff" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My grandmother had mentioned that he worked with clocks, but it could very well be that he was a shoemaker as well. He was a catholic, lived between 1879 and 1953, and had a sister. That's about as much info as I have on Donat.

[passer urbanus]

OK - the names + catholic - they were Polish. I have no experience with that. But what about Leo Kütt - that is an estonian name. any date and place - here we certainly will get results.

I believe Assar and Katsa in this forum may have experience with catholics but I am afraid they prefer to communicate in german language - if you can't, you may also post your question in swedish - Kirsti Ervola does all the local languages, I believe swedish amongst them ...

[bengt]

Should I start a new thread, or send a PM to Assar and Katsa in German? Same with Kirsti? Or should I just write it here in German and Swedish?

(My German is not perfect, but hopefully good enough...)

[Katsa]

I can read/write/speak English as well

By the way - are you sure that this Johan Kütt was born in Tartu? Not in one of the parishes surrounding the town? I just ask because it was quite common that children were born in Tartu though the family actually lived outside of Tartu. This means that you should search not only in the records of three churches in Tartu, but also in the church books of e. g. Nõo, Kambja, Võnnu, etc., etc., parishes.

I took a very short look at some church books and found a possible candidate for your Johan Kütt in Alatskivi, Kodavere parish (though his birth place is not Tartu) Saaga EAA.1256.1.625:79?156,1018,424,79,0 - he has born on 12.03.1876 according to the Julian calendar, when converted to the Gregorian it would be exactly 24.03.1876. This Johan has been taken to the military service 1897. There isn't any information about him later, and it may well be, that he is not the right person.

The church books of catholic churches are not yet available in the Saaga, but as I understood from HERE they will be digitazed and made public 2010/2011.

[bengt]

Cool! I was worried to have to try to write in my poor German.

I can't be too sure about Johan, but he is supposedly born in or around Tartu... The problem is, I don't know much about the Tartu parishes. You listed a few, so I guess I could start checking those...

The Johan Kütt you have found is very interesting indeed. It is hard for me to know if he is the right one without being able to confirm either his wife (Jekaterina, maiden name Saharov, born 5 Dec 1871 in Novorzevi, Russia and worked at the Tartu university) or sons (Vladimir Kütt, born 16 December 1907 in Jelets, Ru, worked as a veterinarian in Tartu and Võnnu(?) - possibly at Raekoja 126; and "Kola", whom we know nothing about since he died a tragic death during the war).

The calendar thingy you mention is also interesting, but at the same time scary for a novice like me. How can I know what calendar was used in the different books? When did they switch? Or is there a way of seeing which one they used? It says 12.28 in the book - what does the 28 mean?

Cool that they are digitizing the catholic church books! I must keep an eye on that...

THANKS for checking in Saaga for me. If you find anything else interesting, feel free to let me know. All of you who have helped so far have given me new hope, and it is quite exciting to try to find out more about my Estonian background!

[Harri.Värs]

Vladimir Kütt'ist on siin üht-teist (mh mainitakse Kastre-Võnnut): http://www.leoke.ee/ametimehed.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[passer urbanus]

Harri has given a good source for you there - his father's name is there Johannes and birth date is a match.

Vladimir's university data: http://www.eha.ee/andmed/search.php?typ ... 75&alates=" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

father's name there is Ivan - this is russian version for Johan(nes)

[Harri.Värs]

The calendar thingy you mention is also interesting, but at the same time scary for a novice like me. How can I know what calendar was used in the different books? When did they switch? Or is there a way of seeing which one they used? It says 12.28 in the book - what does the 28 mean?

Look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_cal ... _Gregorian" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Estonia was part of Russian Empire and we used Julian calendar until February 1st 1918. It means if a person is born in Russian Empire before February 1918 you have to add 13 days for his "Gregorian birthday". 12 days if he/she is born between 1800-1899 and 11 days if between 1700-1799, etc..

12.28 means that a person was born on 12th and was baptized on 28th.
See also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infant_baptism" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Harri.Värs]

Johan Kütt, s. 1876 ja Tartu, Raekoja 106 kah mainitud: Saaga EAA.1256.1.672:85?156,2061,766,179,0

Vladimir Küti kohta veel infot: http://amphora1.carlsman.com/prosopos/i ... =K%C3%BCtt" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Peale selle tasub üle vaadata EAA.2100.1.6863 ja ERA.1947.2.13265 (Kütt, Sofia ja Kütt, Vladimiri palve abielulahutamise küsimuses Arhivaal Riigiarhiiv 08.09.1936-12.12.1936).

[bengt]

Johan Kütt, s. 1876 ja Tartu, Raekoja 106 kah mainitud: Saaga EAA.1256.1.672:85?156,2061,766,179,0

Wow, this looks indeed very promising!

Assuming this is the right Johan (Juhan), what more can I read from this page?

Are Märt, Jaans S(?) and N. Reisfaar(?) his parents? Karel is another child? The other people at the bottom of the page are also siblings?

I see a note about Orlow Apotheker, meaning that he was a pharmacist? Second name Kärts? I see the note about Raekoja 106, but I don't understand the other notes... Tot = did he perhaps die there already in 1937, on 8 April? I guess not, or he would have been crossed out, right?

I'm quite ok at reading Swedish birth books etc. but of course the Estonian ones might be a bit different...

[Katsa]

It seems that I've accidentally found the right lead

Johan's parents are Märt Kütt and Ann, nee Reissaar. Märt is Jaan's son - S(ohn) - you should remember that church books of Lutheran church were written mainly in German and also in Estonian - sometimes it was a mixture of languages. The abbrevisions on this page are: S. - Sohn - son, T. - Tochter - daughter, N. - naine - wife, in German it would be Wb or W. - Weib.

There is no second name written after Johan's name, his fathers name has just been repeated - Märt's S(ohn). Before Raekoja there is the abbrevision for Tartu - Trt. The date after the address seems to be a date when some kind of an information note was received about his whereabouts in this parish, not the time of death. But this has to be checked.

Johan's birth record Saaga EAA.1256.1.617:42?61,1563,899,273,0. He was born in Metsakivi (Metsakiwwi) village HERE

Märt and Ann had all together 12 children, they are listed here: Saaga EAA.1256.1.625:79?61,260,492,1101,0. On this page Märt father Jaan and mother Kadri are present as well. The family has come to Alatskivi from Kaubi or Uue-Pornuse (Neu-Bornhusen in German) in Halliste parish, Pärnu county. I think that based on this information there is a good chance to find your ancestors up to 18th century at least Good luck! And voilà Saaga EAA.1275.1.548:74?67,934,1048,308,0

[bengt]

Katrin/Katsa - and Harri and Passer.urbanus - you are amazing!!! My mother is already in tears! She thought she had lost her roots! And I am already drinking champagne!

My mother just looked in some of my grandfather's passports, and indeed the address Raekoja 106 does show up there. (I had misunderstood #126 previously...) So yes Katrin, you have definitely found the right lead! You are amazing, and the next time I come to Estonia I would be honored to thank you personally.

Thanks for clarifying the abbreviations S, T, N, W.

Totally amazing info!!!

My handwriting reading skills are perhaps not the best, but I interpret that
Johan (Juhan) had parents Märt (31 May 1845) & Ann (25 Jan 1847), both from Kaubi/Uue-Pornuse
Märt had parents Jaan (24 Dec 1818) and Kadri (26 June 1827). 7 of the 12 kids died young, and the rest were Karel, Johan, Line, Ida & Alexander.
Jaan had parents Jakob (3 June 1779), also from Kaubi, and (XXXX unreadable to me) born 8 Dec 1809 from Neu-somethingelse.
That last link was extremely cool! How did you find it? There seems to be references, like p.110 and p.379

I am SO happy!!!

[Katsa]

This Jakob was married twice. His second wife was Els Hunt, born 26.11.1809 in Uue-Kariste (Neu-Karrishof) Saaga EAA.1275.1.529:14?390,1623,1873,116,0. She was obviously not the mother of Jaan - Jaan was born much earlier. Jakobs first wife's name was also Els, she was born about 1786 (?). Els died 17.04.1835 Saaga EAA.1275.1.103:46?192,1654,1965,75,0

Jakob and Els in the parish member list from 1815-1837 Saaga EAA.1275.1.544:104?1105,343,1012,622,0 and in the previous parish member list from 1808-1825 Saaga EAA.1275.1.543:28?1129,197,532,318,0

I suppose that the marriage record of Jakob and Els is to be found here Saaga EAA.1275.2.4:17?132,760,1076,55,0 - as you probably know, the Estonian peasants got their family names 1826 in Governorate of Livonia, before that they were identified by a combination of farm name, father's name and given name or by the profession or by a combination of given name and farm name where they worked as servants or maids (as in this case). This makes the tracing of roots sometimes difficult but exciting. If Jakob's and Els' first child were born in 1802, then it is highly probable that their marriage took place appr. year or two before that. There are no other records within the five years period before their first child was born, which correspond to the known facts - given names Jakob and Els and their birth place/residence.

Jakob's birth record Saaga EAA.1275.2.3:161?43,1324,1063,113,0

I have doubts about Els' birth year 1786. I think she was born earlier. She would have been only 15 by the time of her marriage - this was too young even in 18th century, although it cannot be totally excluded. I would search for the matching birth record in the period between 1779-1786. Els' mother's name was Rõõt or Reet Saaga EAA.1275.1.543:28?1174,462,406,57,0 - s(eine) Schwiegermutter Rõõt - his (Jakob's) mother-in-law Rõõt. Els' father's name was Hans (take a look at the soul revision list from 1816). Now we have at least one possible match Saaga EAA.1275.2.3:167?29,737,1063,95,0. Unfortunately I cannot find birth record from 1785 and 1786. It may need a special invistigation to prove that this is the right person.

Jakob and his family in the soul revision lists:
1811 Saaga EAA.1865.3.171/5:9?1334,500,1030,158,0
1816 Saaga EAA.1865.5.166:17?148,1149,2210,169,0
1826 (an intermediate revision where the family names were fixed) Saaga EAA.1865.3.171/12:21?258,1007,2219,251,0
1834 Saaga EAA.1865.3.172/5:8?178,1613,2301,177,0
1850 Jakob's son Jaan Saaga EAA.1865.3.173/3:23?237,978,2261,129,0
1858 Saaga EAA.1865.3.175/1:23?140,1255,2162,190,0
The family has left Kaubi and gone to Alatskivi in 1867 Saaga EAA.1865.3.175/1:69

In parish member lists and soul revision lists there is more than once mentioned that Jakob was a "Schütz" which - I think - explains his pre-1826-name Küti Jakob and the given family name Kütt. Schütz(e) means shooter or rifleman or it can be used for a hunter as well.

[Tõnis]

I have quite a lot of information (incl. photos) about the descendants of Märt Kütt and their home in Metsakivi, as it happens to be my home now. I have sent you a private e-mail.

Tõnis

[bengt]

I just want to say once again that I am absolutely speechless, and my mother is in happy tears, for all this information! Thanks again, everyone!

I am currently processing all this info, taking notes, following links (thanks Katsa for the last list of links - I'll be sure to check them all!), saving pages, etc.

Two questions have sprung to mind:
1. Where can I find information about births after ca 1930 (especially in 1936)? I would like to trace everything back to my mother (Meeri Kütt, born 1 Aug 1936), but there is some information missing between Johan and her. Johans wife Jekaterina, who also lived in Metsakivi, and their two sons Vladimir and ?... Since Johan apparently became a soldier in 1897, perhaps he met his wife Jekaterina Saharov (born in Pilskava, Novorzevi, Russia 5 Dec 1871) and had Vladimir (born 16 Dec 1907 in Jelets, Russia) and their second son (unknown name) while living in Russia, and then they moved back again?

2. Does it mean anything special when there is a special type of cross in front of a death, instead of the regular "+"? Like this one: http://www.ra.ee/dgs/_purl.php?shc=EAA. ... ,1630,98,0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (Line Kütt, died 9/8 1937) and this one: http://www.ra.ee/dgs/_purl.php?shc=EAA. ... ,226,120,0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (Märt Kütt, died 5/X 1926)

/Bengt

[bengt]

I have quite a lot of information (incl. photos) about the descendants of Märt Kütt and their home in Metsakivi, as it happens to be my home now. I have sent you a private e-mail.

This is of course a coincidence so mind blowing I can't really fathom it yet. I have written you back, and I hope we will find contact via e-mail. Please let me know if you didn't receive my reply.

Bengt

[bengt]

Jakob and his family in the soul revision lists:
1811 Saaga EAA.1865.3.171/5:9?1334,500,1030,158,0
1816 Saaga EAA.1865.5.166:17?148,1149,2210,169,0
1826 (an intermediate revision where the family names were fixed) Saaga EAA.1865.3.171/12:21?258,1007,2219,251,0

So, trying to trace things backwards at least one more step, I'm trying to understand the texts in the book from 1816 and 1811 in the links above. For instance, in the 1816 book it is mentioned Schütz Jacob, Jaak Sohn (37). On the line above, there is a mention about another Jaak, Johan S: vid: No30. What is this reference to No.30? It links to 30 Neustewalla. Are these not families, but rather workers, teams etc?

What would be the next step for me to find out when Jacob's father Jaak was born? I can't seem to find many books from the 1700's from Kaubi.

And what might the heading 28. Tebo mean?

Same thing with the link to 1811, Jacob and his son Jurry are listed, but what about a mother? And didn't Jacob have a father listed on that page? There is so much information already from you Katsa, so I'm sorry if you already explained this. It is just so interesting I can't let it go. But maybe it is too difficult to get any further back... Perhaps I should try to find the death dates for Jacob, Els, Jaan and Kadri...

[Katsa]

1. Where can I find information about births after ca 1930 (especially in 1936)? ...

I suggest that you should turn to the Archive of Tartu County Government, they keep the birth, death and marriage records and family cards (or whatever they are called) starting from 01.07.1926. You should provide them with all the information you already have and describe as exactly as you can what kind of information you would like to get from the archive http://www.tartumv.ee/?op=body&id=38" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

2. Does it mean anything special when there is a special type of cross in front of a death, instead of the regular "+"? ...

I think the style of the cross depended on the person who have made those entries and on his individual handwriting. At least two different persons have written on this page.

This Jakob was married twice. His second wife was Els Hunt, born 26.11.1809 in Uue-Kariste (Neu-Karrishof) Saaga EAA.1275.1.529:14?390,1623,1873,116,0.

How on earth did you find this? And how can you read it?! Impressive!

Jakob both marriages are described here Saaga EAA.1275.1.548:74?74,953,641,107,0 - the first wife Els, born 1786, is marked as dead with + before her name, the time of death is written on the next page on Els' line, in the marriages column there is written verh(eiratet) 1835 - it must be the next marriage. Second wifes name is written between Jacob and first Els. The second Els has remarried with a guy named Margus Konrad in 1849 after Jakobs death 29.08.1845.

The marriage record of Jakob and Els II says:
Neu Bornhusen. Bräutigam: Einwohner Jakob Kütt, geboren unter Neu Bornhusen, Luth(erischer Confession), dessen Vater Knecht Jaak, todt, Mutter Ann lebt; on the next page: verwitt(vet), 56 Jahre alt, then there are three dates when their engagement was proclaimed in the church; den achtzehnten August von P(astor) l(oci) in der Kirche copuliert, Gemeinde Gerichts Schein dd. 2 August 1835
Neu Karrishof. Magd Els Hunt, geboren unter Neu Karrishof, Luth., deren Vater Knecht Hans, lebt, Mutter Anno, lebt, ledig, 26 Jahre alt etc.

Also, can you read what the cause of death was? I can't decipher it...

Els I cause of death was Auszehrung which is most likely tuberculosis but can mean cancer as well.

Jakob's death record Saaga EAA.1275.1.113:55?105,660,1972,69,0 - cause of death Ruhr - shigellosis or dysentery.

Who do you think are the other people listed in the links above? Rööt (you mention a Schweigermutter Rööt below) 1802, Jürri 1806, Lena 27 Juli 1809, An, Hans (1813). And here Jaan shows up again (father of Märt) b.12/12 1818, and his brother Jaak? b.27/9 1821. Plus someone else at the bottom...

Rõõt, Jüri, Lena, Ann, Hans, Jaan and Jaak are children of Jakob and Els. Those other people do not belong to this family.

I suppose that the marriage record of Jakob and Els is to be found here Saaga EAA.1275.2.4:17?132,760,1076,55,0

How can you read this?

It says Pillakesse Hinrich s(ein) Junge Jacob mit Mikko Peter Johanns Magd Els.

Jakob's birth record Saaga EAA.1275.2.3:161?43,1324,1063,113,0

Again, how can you read this?!? Thanks for helping me out here!

It says 23/26 (born/baptized) Nr. 117 Neu Bornhusen. Sado Jaak eines Wirts u(nd) s(eines) W(eibes) An, Sohn Jacob. Gevatter: der Hofs Junge Jacob, der Vormünder Napsi Marcus, Rengel(?) Hans s(eine) Wirthin Kert von Euseküll.

In this book from 1826, I read that Jakob's father's name was Jaan?

Jakob's father's name was Jaak.

Here's a scary thing... In the moving papers, I see that a certain Ann 11 years old is moving with the family. Märt, then 12, later marries her... Was this common practice?
Who might Hans, Peter, Kaddri and Els be who are also moving? Can they be children too?

Märt and Ann got married in 1866. The ages in the moving record are ages at the time of previous soul revision 1858. They are not the real ages in 1867.
Juhan, Hans, Peter, Kadri and Els are other children of Jaan and Kadri. Hans, Peter Kadri and Els were not present in 1858 - they were born later.

The family in the Halliste parish member list from 1860-1930 Saaga EAA.1275.1.553:194?78,1303,1032,397,0 and continued here Saaga EAA.1275.1.553:195?129,440,805,457,0

Marriage record of Märt and Ann Saaga EAA.1275.1.532:2?335,1078,1798,253,0

Neu Bornhusen. Bräutigam Södi Jaan S(ohn) Märt Kütt, Luth. Conf. Eltern: V(ater) Jaan Wb (Weib) Kadri leben, Gb. in NeuB (geboren in Neu Bornhusen), ledig, 21 J. alt .... den sieben und zwanzigsten December vom P. l. auf dem Pastorat Hallist getraut
Neu Bornhusen. Braut Hägi Rein T(ochter) An Reissaar, Luth. Conf. Eltern: V. Rein Wb Marri leben, Gb in NeuB, ledig, 19 J. alt.

Marriage record of Jaan and Kadri Saaga EAA.1275.1.530:24?399,1250,1907,160,0

Neu Bornhusen. Bräutigam Jung Jaan Kütt geboren in Pebo Gesinde, Luth., Vater Schütz Jakob lebt, Mutter Els, todt, ledig, 26 Jahre alt ... den fünf und zwanzigsten Juni v. P. l. in der Kirche getraut, Schein 9 Juni 1844
Neu Bornhusen. Braut Wirthstochter Kadri Oia, geboren in Mitti Gesinde, Luth., Vater Wirth Ristohw, Mutter Rõõt, beide leben, ledig, 17 Jahre alt.

[bengt]

I just again want to thank everyone for the GREAT help! I couldn't have done it without you!

I think I've (almost) figured out how to work the SAGA database now. I find it a bit tricky to find the right books if one only knows the parish or birthplace, but I think I may have gotten the hang of it!

The trickiest part for me is if I encounter books in Russian. I know German, but not Russian. And since everything is in cyrillic, it's impossible for me to even guess names etc.

I guess I'm kind of stuck at Jakob Kütt (b.23/5 1779), his father Jaak (no info) and his wife Els (1786-17/4 1835). Which isn't too bad considering what I knew before!
I should try to find the date of death for Johan Kütt, and it would be fun to investigate some of the wives' sides too.

Once I've grasped all the information I have now, I will try to concentrate on the Kozlowski side of the tree - but since the catholic books won't be digitized until next year, I guess I'll have to wait for that - or for other help...

Geni.com is fun - I found lots of extra branches - and relatives - thanks to that too!

[passer urbanus]

just in case - have you found the name register of Saaga: http://www.ra.ee/dgs/addon/nimreg/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Knowing birthplace is already quite a lot. Here's a database that links some of the data you may need, also you can find here the relation of Estonian and German names: http://web.zone.ee/passergenesis/kogudus-mois.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

[Katsa]

So, trying to trace things backwards at least one more step, I'm trying to understand the texts in the book from 1816 and 1811 in the links above. For instance, in the 1816 book it is mentioned Schütz Jacob, Jaak Sohn (37). On the line above, there is a mention about another Jaak, Johan S: vid: No30. What is this reference to No.30? It links to 30 Neustewalla. Are these not families, but rather workers, teams etc?

I cannot explain, why this Jaak, Johan S. is written here in the first place - perhaps mistakenly. No. 30 refers to the farm called Naistewalla. Usually there where many families and single persons living and working at a farm. This Jaak, Johan S. was living in Naistewalla No. 30 in 1816 and he was in farm or place No. 9 in 1811 Saaga EAA.1865.5.166:18?158,765,1020,71,0

What would be the next step for me to find out when Jacob's father Jaak was born? I can't seem to find many books from the 1700's from Kaubi.

Finding Jaak could be a challenge - as there are not so many sources which can support the research. The birth record of Jakob says that his father was called Sado Jaak and he was the landlord. The supplement word "Sado" before his given name means that he was the landlord of the farm called Sado (in Estonian it should be most likely Saadu). The tricky thing is, that he could be called with other names in his previous life. The supplement before the given name had the tendnecy to change if the person moved to another place. For instance - he might be called with another name while he was getting married, if he did not live at the Sado at the time of his marriage; in his birth record he may have yet another name, etc. The only thing you know for sure is his given name Jaak.

I think I have found Jaak's death record Saaga EAA.1275.2.3:32?78,1108,1064,42,0 - he died 09.05.1782 and was buried 10.05.1782 at the age of 55. This gives you the approximate time of birth - around 1727. Note that ages in all records of that time are random.

And what might the heading 28. Tebo mean?

28 is the number of the farm in this revision and Pebo is the name of the farm. According to the spelling rules of Estonian language it should be Peebu.

Same thing with the link to 1811, Jacob and his son Jurry are listed, but what about a mother? And didn't Jacob have a father listed on that page?

The 1811 revision was an extraordinary one - Napoleon's invasion of Russia was about to begin. The aim of this revision was to count all men suitable for military service - this is why the women were not included.

[bengt]

just in case - have you found the name register of Saaga: http://www.ra.ee/dgs/addon/nimreg/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I found some ways of searching for names, but not from there. Thanks for the link!

Knowing birthplace is already quite a lot. Here's a database that links some of the data you may need, also you can find here the relation of Estonian and German names: http://web.zone.ee/passergenesis/kogudus-mois.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

Also very interesting and helpful information!

[bengt]

I cannot explain, why this Jaak, Johan S. is written here in the first place - perhaps mistakenly. No. 30 refers to the farm called Naistewalla. Usually there where many families and single persons living and working at a farm. This Jaak, Johan S. was living in Naistewalla No. 30 in 1816 and he was in farm or place No. 9 in 1811 Saaga EAA.1865.5.166:18?158,765,1020,71,0

I find the lack of variation of names fascinating. Again, I'm sure it was the same over here in those days. OK, so the Johan trace is dead.

What would be the next step for me to find out when Jacob's father Jaak was born? I can't seem to find many books from the 1700's from Kaubi.

Finding Jaak could be a challenge - as there are not so many sources which can support the research. The birth record of Jakob says that his father was called Sado Jaak and he was the landlord. The supplement word "Sado" before his given name means that he was the landlord of the farm called Sado (in Estonian it should be most likely Saadu). The tricky thing is, that he could be called with other names in his previous life. The supplement before the given name had the tendnecy to change if the person moved to another place. For instance - he might be called with another name while he was getting married, if he did not live at the Sado at the time of his marriage; in his birth record he may have yet another name, etc. The only thing you know for sure is his given name Jaak.

Well, Getting this far back is more than I could ever dream of anyway, and it sure sounds tough from here.

I think I have found Jaak's death record Saaga EAA.1275.2.3:32?78,1108,1064,42,0 - he died 09.05.1782 and was buried 10.05.1782 at the age of 55. This gives you the approximate time of birth - around 1727. Note that ages in all records of that time are random.

What a detective you are! I guess this is what makes genealogy fun. The good thing is that people didn't move very much in those days, so one can possibly assume that he was born close by too.

Same thing with the link to 1811, Jacob and his son Jurry are listed, but what about a mother? And didn't Jacob have a father listed on that page?

The 1811 revision was an extraordinary one - Napoleon's invasion of Russia was about to begin. The aim of this revision was to count all men suitable for military service - this is why the women were not included.

You know so many things! How interesting indeed! I'll keep that in mind for my further research too.

[sulin]

I have a bit more information about Vladimir Kütt and his brother Kolja. Kolja come back to Tartu and hang oneself. He yearned Russia.
I have photos about Vladimir Kütt. My husband lived 17 years in house Raatuse 106 Tartu. At first he lived there with Ida Kütt. My husbands mothers grandmother was Ann Kütt.

[bengt]

I have a bit more information about Vladimir Kütt and his brother Kolja. Kolja come back to Tartu and hang oneself. He yearned Russia.
I have photos about Vladimir Kütt. My husband lived 17 years in house Raatuse 106 Tartu. At first he lived there with Ida Kütt. My husbands mothers grandmother was Ann Kütt.

Thank you SO much for this very interesting information!!! This is truly amazing!
Can you please contact me via email? I have some additional questions to you.

[sulin]

Yes, of course!