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Moving east in 1880's

Postitatud: Neljapäev 25. August 2005, 22:50:08
Postitas helene
The people I am interested in moved about 1885 to 1889.

I would like to know what happend to them. If they moved back to Estonia after 1914 or if they stayed.
I have heard that some of the Lindwest family moved back.

Helene

Postitatud: Reede 26. August 2005, 14:13:08
Postitas fred.puss
The Moloskovitsa and Simititsa Estonians belonged to a Moloskovitsa Finnish Lutheran congregation (Simititsa was 17 km from Moloskovitsa). Some might have belonged to Jamburg (now Kingissepp) Estonian Lutheran congregation (Simititsa was 37 km from Jamburg). In Gatchina there was an Estonian congregation. Those church books are in St Petersburg and have been microfilmed by the Mormons.
helene kirjutas:I have some familys that moved east to Moloskowits, Simititsa and Gatsina in the 1880's.
Where can I find anything about them? Was there an Estonian church with churchbooks?
The family names I am interested in are Einstruk, Laurent, Konton, Lindwest, Oodenberg, Krawtsow. They came all from the Kuusalu area.
I will be happy for any help to find them.
Helene

Postitatud: Reede 26. August 2005, 14:14:08
Postitas fred.puss
Look at http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library ... umns=*,0,0

Those are the church books from 1833-1885. But I do not really suggest to order them from the mormons - one 1000 page volume contains only one year of each Lutheran congregation in Russia (except the Baltic provinces). So from one film roll you will get only one year of your congregation. But if you are looking for a specific entry in a church book, then maybe that still helps.

The later church books are in another archives, maybe those have not been microfilmed by the mormons, I do not know for sure.

The church books are probably in Russian. All church books were in Russian since 1892, earlier ones might have been in the mail local language of the settlement (Finnish, Estonian?), but I am not really sure about that.

helene kirjutas:Hallo Fred

You wrote:
Those church books are in St Petersburg and have been microfilmed by the Mormons.

I have spent some time this afternoon going through the Mormon pages at internet. But I can't find any film numbers, so it will be hard to order them. This is all I found:

Place Russia, St. Petersburg, I︠A︡mburg

Part of Russia, St. Petersburg
Contains Russia, St. Petersburg, I︠A︡mburg, Bol'shoĭkonet︠s︡
Russia, St. Petersburg, I︠A︡mburg, I︠A︡mburg
Russia, St. Petersburg, I︠A︡mburg, Jamburg
Russia, St. Petersburg, I︠A︡mburg, Kattila
Russia, St. Petersburg, I︠A︡mburg, Kosemkina
Russia, St. Petersburg, I︠A︡mburg, Kotly
Russia, St. Petersburg, I︠A︡mburg, Kuzemkino
Russia, St. Petersburg, I︠A︡mburg, Moloskovit︠s︡y
Russia, St. Petersburg, I︠A︡mburg, Moloskowitz
Russia, St. Petersburg, I︠A︡mburg, Novasolka
Russia, St. Petersburg, I︠A︡mburg, Novoselki

Helene

Postitatud: Laupäev 27. August 2005, 11:31:08
Postitas helene
So, there is hardly any chance to find out what happend to these people.
Is there anything written about them who moved east? Is there any books or other litterature?

Helene

Postitatud: Laupäev 27. August 2005, 17:37:08
Postitas fred.puss
Most of Estonians who lived in Russia applied to return to Estonia in 1920-1922. Their personal files have been preserved in the Estonian State Archives and are an excellent source to find out where they lived and what they did in those years. About 200,000 people applied to return to Estonia but only 38,000 actually did so.
helene kirjutas:So, there is hardly any chance to find out what happend to these people.
Is there anything written about them who moved east? Is there any books or other litterature?

Helene

Postitatud: Kolmapäev 31. August 2005, 12:23:08
Postitas helene
[quote="fred.puss"]Most of Estonians who lived in Russia applied to return to Estonia in 1920-1922. Their personal files have been preserved in the Estonian State Archives and are an excellent source to find out where they lived and what they did in those years. About 200,000 people applied to return to Estonia but only 38,000 actually did so.

Hallo again!

Do you know what this collection of files are called?
I have been looking at www.riigi.arhiiv.ee, but I can't find anything.
It may depend on my bad Estonian knowledge :?
There is a search form in the Estonian pages, but I am not sure how to use it.
Helene

Postitatud: Kolmapäev 31. August 2005, 18:15:08
Postitas fred.puss
helene kirjutas:Do you know what this collection of files are called?
I have been looking at www.riigi.arhiiv.ee, but I can't find anything.
It may depend on my bad Estonian knowledge :?
There is a search form in the Estonian pages, but I am not sure how to use it.
Helene
You can search http://ais.ra.ee. The fonds (collections) are no 28, 33, 34, 36 (kontroll-opteerimiskomisjonid).

Postitatud: Kolmapäev 31. August 2005, 23:01:08
Postitas kroonstrom
Maria (Jüri`s daughter) Lindwest from Estonia (b. 1885). Arrested in 28.03.1938 (Perm oblast, district Nõborsk, Kolvinets). Died in 7.07.1938.

Ivan (Johan?) (Kuzma`s son) Lindwest. Borned also in Estonia. He was arrested in 12.02.1938 (Perm) but was realised in 18.07.1939.

Sources: Russian internet.

Postitatud: Neljapäev 01. September 2005, 21:03:09
Postitas helene
Thank you for your help again Fred.
Maybe I will find something next time I go to Tallinn

And thanks to you Kröönström for your information.
Now I know about 2 more persons.

Once I read an article of Emma Takkis at internet. She wrote about Moloskovits and her family when they lived there.
But I can't find it any more. So if anyone finds it please let me know.

Helene

Postitatud: Laupäev 03. Jaanuar 2009, 13:05:01
Postitas Smurfiina
One story "Kolgast Venemaale õnne otsima" of Emma Takis you can find at
http://www.hot.ee/polvnemislugu/30pl.html

Postitatud: Pühapäev 04. Jaanuar 2009, 12:53:01
Postitas helene
Thanks a lot. :lol:
It was this article I was looking for.

:oops: Now I have to have it translated.

Thanks//Helene

Re: Moving east in 1880's

Postitatud: Teisipäev 03. Juuli 2012, 22:36:07
Postitas helene
About Jaagup Einstruk

http://www.ra.ee/dgs/browser.php?tid=68 ... 18912e0dc9
I have got a translation:
the List of Estonian landowners in Yamburgsky Uyezd (Yamburgsky Uyezd = Uyezd of Yamburg, estonian: ’Jamburgi kreis’). 'Uyezd' was an administrative subdivision of Russian Empire, like 'maakond' in modern Estonia or 'kreis' in the Governorate of Estonia before 1918. This document is from year 1918, the estonian translation of his caption is 'Jamburgi kreisi eestlastest maaomanike nimistu'. From this document follows that Jakob (son of Martin*) Einstruk was the owner of 70 dessiatins of farmland (’dessiatin’ was a unit of area measurement in Russia before 1918) in Kniazhevskaya volost of Yamburgsky Uyezd ('volost' was an administrative divisions of uyezd) of Saint Petersburg Governorate. Kniazhevskaya volost was located in the territories of today's Volosovsky raion of Leningrad oblast. The biggest settlements and the centers of Estonian comunity in this volost were Moloskovitsa (russian: Moloskovitsy, german: Moloskowitz or Molozkowitz) and Simititsa (russian: Zimititsy).

I would like to know where this place is, as I can't find it on the map. And is there any more information about Jaagup Einstruk in this fond? Or where can I find more information about him and his family? Do they still live at this place Kniazhevskaya?
Any help is appreciated as I have looked for them for a long time now.

Helene

Re: Moving east in 1880's

Postitatud: Kolmapäev 04. Juuli 2012, 11:52:07
Postitas arkin
Don’t know exact borders of Kniazhevskaya volost, but look around the central settlement Kniazhevo. Maybe switch to satellite image for details

Re: Moving east in 1880's

Postitatud: Kolmapäev 04. Juuli 2012, 16:07:07
Postitas andres73
This is more or less where the area was, linked to Google Maps:

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en-GB&ll ... 4&t=h&z=11

Moloskovitsy (Moloskovitsa) is approximately at 59°24' N / 29°06' E.
Zimititsy (Simititsa in Estonian or Simetsa in Finnish) is at 59°32′50″ N / 29°07′18.
Volosovo (capital of Volosovskiy rayon) is approximately at 59°26' N / 29°29'.

EDIT: Sorry for posting another map, I did not notice the link in the above post.

Re: Moving east in 1880's

Postitatud: Reede 06. Juuli 2012, 22:18:07
Postitas helene
Many thanks for the map.
How can I find out if there still are any relatives living there?

Re: Moving east in 1880's

Postitatud: Pühapäev 08. Juuli 2012, 02:19:07
Postitas andres73
That can be somewhat complicated.

Jüri Remmelgas in his book "Tuline värav" ("The Hot Gate"), EMP Stockholm, reprint Tallinn, 2004, mentions the Estonian settlement at Simititsa and notes that "1941.a. novembris elutses Simititsas ainult üksikuid eestlasi." (in November 1941, there were only a few Estonians living at Simititsa").

The book is here: http://www.nommevalitsus.org/index.php? ... 04&lang=et

And the chapter is here: http://www.nommevalitsus.org/index.php? ... 04&lang=en

This may indicate that most Estonians left the area. Presently, Zimititsy has a population of 1446 (but in 1952 only 102, which means that pre-war residents of the village or their descendants would be rather hard to come by on the spot).

I assume you already know the information provided about Jaagup Einstruks (there seem to be 7 of them recorded) at http://geni.com If the one you are interested in is also listed there, you could try contacting the person managing that Jaagup Einstruk (if you have not already done so).

You can perhaps try your luck at the forum of the Pan-Russian genealogy site vgd.ru: http://www.vgd.ru/about_en.htm That is a forum in Russian but postings in English have received replies. If you do post there, be specific about the places and surnames.

And just in case:

Russian Wikipedia has an article about Zimititsy:
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;Зимитицы_(посёлок)

and also an article about Moloskovitsy (railway station only):
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;Молосковицы_(станция)

Here are the articles about the Volosovo rayon (district):
Russian: http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;Волосовский_район
English: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volosovsky_District

EDIT: This forum seems to be presently incapable of auto-linking URLs that contain cyrillic characters, and therefore some of the above links can be opened by copy-paste into the address box of the web browser.

It may also be worth mentioning that in addition to Simititsa and Moloskovitsa, there were other places where Estonians lived in the area. It seems that most of them are not in the present-day Volosovo rayon but the following ones are: Kikerino (which was then under Peterhof county), possibly Teshkovo (?) (then also under Peterhof county) and Ivanovskoe. Some further information about Estonian settlements in Yamburg and Peterhof counties could be found in August Nigol. Eesti asundused ja asupaigad Wenemaal. Tartu, 1918, see pp. 19-21 here: http://ida.aule.ee/raamatud/nigol1918_orig.pdf